Future Shock: Could The VI Be “For Sale” By Transfer Day 2012?
Editorial by Ivan Butcher II
If History repeats itself, then it is not too farfetched, especially with the chronicle of the Virgin Islands, that one day the Virgin Islands will again be up For Sale. The weak economy and the bleak forecast for the future, the United States, just like Denmark who sold because of their weak economy, may have to sell. What happens if China, America’s biggest credit holder, calls in the Debt? Does America posture and refuse to pay, or does China make an offer that the United States cannot refuse?
It seems as if the principles of the Monroe Doctrine, which is designed to protect the United States’ backyard from any Nation establishing a military foothold in the Caribbean, are obsolete. In my life time the Monroe Doctrine was enforced in 1962, by Kennedy’s face-off with Russia in Cuba, and again when Reagan’s conflict with Cuba in Grenada, in 1983. Yet today, China is establishing an economic strong hold on many of the Caribbean Islands.
Being a Territorial possession, and a For Sale is a feasible possibility; how does this new Constitutional Draft protect the citizens of the Virgin Islands?
Are you trying to scare people? Although possible, I do not believe that the U.S. will sell the VI. They could push us to be independent, but putting us for sale is nuts.
That does not answer my question.
Being a Territorial possession, how does this new Constitutional Draft protect the citizens of the Virgin Islands?
I am having trouble with my computer so I may not be able to respond.
@Ivan ‘The Butcher’:
Personally I don’t see any of that happening,but in this crazy world in which we now live anything,I suppose,is possible.
First of all,one has to recall that when the U.S.Virgin Islands was purchased from Denmark it was (by name and nature) virgin territory in that it was undeveloped,less populated and void of the many problems that haunt the V.I.today.’Progress’,as we have learned, can be a two-edged sword.
Furthermore,even with all of its charms,natural beauty and geographic placement,what country in it’s right mind would want to be saddled with the horriffic social and economic problems the Virgin Islands are presently experiencing?
The Chinese,despite their relative wealth,have their own ‘can of worms’ with which to deal and,even if tempted to make the purchase,I don’t see Virgin Islanders (natives and non-native alike) welcoming those aliens with open arms.No sah!
Virgin Islanders are a fiercely proud people and they will find a way to fend for themselves rather than being sold to the highest bidder.
First things first.The issue of status takes precedence.
The proposed VI Constitution prohibits the sale of the U.S. Virgin Islands. This is a hilarious because only the Congress has authority to make treaties. The draft has no no supremacy to the U.S. Constitution. Imagine the members of Congress when their read such a clause.If the VI is going to be sold, I would make sure that I immigrate to the mainland before the sale becomes effective. I pray Congress just say the people of the VI can decide they status. The chances of the USVI winning independence is practically nil.
Alarmist much?
The VI is for sale. Everytime we cast a vote for yet another unsuitable candidate, we sell out.
Wayne James: Vote for him, and he will spend your dollars travelling.
Sanes: Vote for him, and he will sell out to the highest bidder.
Thurland: Vote for him, and you get what DeJongh pays him to do.
Mapp: (Ken WHO?)Vote for him, and you get who the *$%# knows what, but you do get the people he keeps company with…
Julie Fricks: Who??? The Crime Stoppers Lady? Or the Beauty Pagent Lady? (one in the same). What she got in her past that was a decent accomplishment for the community? Nada. She seem to think all deh hoodlums listen to Mario’s show, so she biased already…she so far up DeJongh’s butt she ain’t got a brain for herself, not to mention for us.
We here in the VI have made ourselves such a pain in the *** to the Mother Land, that they are just getting tired of the whining and financial begging. We want to be independant, yet we want ALL the dollars we can scrimp from deh position of US Territory. Well, no wonder we could get sold, we just “users” who wait for whatever we can scam. DeJongh is proof of that!
I say “sell us”. We could do so much better in the world market, and tourism, if we are the only place on the planet that the USA found impossible to deal with, so they “sold us” to the highest bidder willing to take on a real pain in the $%*.
But we must vote for Mr Perfect, Foncie? Go fly a kite Don’t Stop the Carnival Donastorg. Your ranting and raving whenever your not the topic is plainly obvious. You know what, go prep for the crying routine you’ll display when your on the stand. Remember the charges?
@ Anon 10:08
John you need to stay off of CIF talking about Foncie.
After the rally on St. Croix yesterday this generation of Virgin Islanders and nonnatives have truly realized what uniting is all about. We all felt the wind of our ancestors pushing us forward as we march to taking back one Virgin Islands street at a time.
John P. de Jongh, Jr., you are hereby put on notice that the marching has just began. Like the St. Thomians brothers and sisters that came to join we Crucians in our protest against your lack of crime fighting efforts, we Crucians are coming to St. Thomas to join our brothers and sisters to march on YOU to make it clear to you that we want our $500,000 back.
WE WANT BACK OUR MONEY NOW JOHN AND WE COMING FOR YOU!
If you come to St.Thomas, we will gather our forces and have a counter-march against you. We on St.Thomas are united for one Territory.We support John.
Soldier Crab is right. If the Virgin Islands were offered for sale, no country is foolish enough to assume the large debt the VI has, nor assume the $1 billion plus cost of annual upkeep. It is doubtful the U.S. could give the VI away-except to Virgin Islanders, who deserve to have it. Virgin Islanders have made it what it is today. Maybe Sen. W. James could tell us if Hugo C. or Fidel C. would take the islands? No? Some think those two are crazy, and it’s a good bet they wouldn’t take the VI. They couldn’t afford it.
Soldier Crab is also correct that the issue of status needs to be decided. The first step is to get the issue on a ballot, at least for the people to vote, even if it is none binding. Get a sense of the people and then live with their decision.
At least on this, both sides of the status debate should stop bickering and join together and get the issue on the ballot in November. It’s a simple question:
Should the USVI stop being a territory of the United States? Yes or No.
A very simple question. A simple answer.
Nothing complicated. Nothing in detail. This is the fundamental issue. If yes, move on to the complicated issues. If no, accept it and stop wasting time, energy, and a lot of worthless anger on both sides.
How to fund this vote and public debate? Don’t let Senator James’ $10 million statute to start planning for Transfer Day 2017 get signed by the Governor. That $10 million is going to go to waste long before serious plans are actually made. It will disappear into the pockets of special people. Those privileged enough to have the right connections to get the legislative contracts that will be given out.
@ Anon 10:08
Wrong, I’m not Donastorg. Read my previous posts, and you could plainly see that. Dosnastorg is not on my radar yet, don’t even know is he is really running for the gov seat.
What it does come down to, however, is that I have not heard of one viable candidate who adheres to all the laws on the books now, and NO, I’m not referring to talking on a cell phone while driving.
Jamilia’s March really meant something to our community, and we need a governor who really understands the impact of saying one thing to our youth and then doing as they please whilst disregarding the law. So far, I haven’t seen that candidate come forward. If we really want change, then let’s make change happen. It obviously hasn’t happened with DeJongh, and I just don’t see anyone real and honest just yet. Given Mapp’s “friends”, I don’t see ANY possibility of positive change happening there either. And Nelson? Well, nice guy, but not entirely lawful, IF ya get my gist… Donastorg? Well, seems to be slated as an unlawful man, but maybe not so. However, DeJongh has tied-up his chances of running as a clean and viable candidate, hasn’t he…DeJongh is evil, and we are paying for it, huh.
Donastorg record was clean before de Jongh plotted to drag him through the mud. I have been told he is running for Governor and will not let this derail him.
He is one of the few candidates that has never been for sale.
Anon 7:46 am,
Who on St Thomas suppports John deJongh? Are you refering to all 200 of you. Keep dreaming and halucinating all the way to the primary election. It’s best that you stay away from reality. Because it seems that the truth might kill you.
I’ve been seeing and hearing and Foncie looks like he is going with the election. We will wait and see but I’m hearing Donastorg name as a favorite.
@ Don’t Insult Our Intelligence & ALL
Please read the History of the United States Virgin Islands under the following Wikipedia entry and cross related documents. Also please pay attention to items 1, 2, 6 and my related comments.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Virgin_Islands#cite_note-Danish_National_Archives-3
Quote from the Danish website http://www.virgin-islands-history.dk/eng/vi_hist.asp
1 – “Emancipation, however, did not by itself solve the problems of the black population. Living conditions did not improve substantially for the now free labourers…”
Me – (This very same thing may happen with independence from the US.)
2 – “During the American Civil War, the North States had needed port facilities for their Navy in the Caribbean. Therefore the United States wanted to take over Saint Thomas and Saint John with the fine natural harbours. The Danish government was willing to sell, and a treaty was agreed upon in 1867 by the two parties. However, due to domestic American political complications the sale was not effected.”
Me – (It seems like China would want to do the same. They are already spreading their influence in the form of $$$ to many islands in the Caribbean.)
Quoting BBC news story
http://www.bbc.co.uk/caribbean/news/story/2008/05/printable/080502_sanders0505.shtml
“China also announced in 2007 that the government itself would invest US$553 million in the Caribbean over the three year period 2007-2010.”
3 – “From the 1870s and for the rest of the Danish period economic conditions worsened. Each year there was a substantial deficit in the public budgets of Saint Croix, as well as those of Saint Thomas with Saint Jan. The deficits had to be met by the Danish state.”
Me – (I think we are seeing history repeat itself here with this one.)
4 – “As social and economic problems in the islands increased, the Danish government opened new negotiations with the Americans. And in 1902 a draft treaty was agreed upon by the two governments.”
Me – (Social and economic problems are indeed worsening. I wonder if the US is growing tired of the VI yet?)
5 – “Time had come, therefore, for Denmark to do something essential to improve conditions in the depressed islands. The colony was released from its debt to the Danish state, the colonial administration was reduced and made more effective, and in 1906 a new Colonial Law rendered the right of voting to the colonial councils to a larger part of the population.”
“The ordinary people experienced very hard times, reacting by protests and strikes.”
Me – (Self explanatory my ordinary people.)
6 – “A sales price of 25 million dollars in gold was offered in 1916 by the United States, and after a hectic public debate and referendum in Denmark, the treaty was ratified by the two parties.”
Me – (Public debate and referendum in Denmark, but the treaty was still signed by the two parties. It seems that for some odd reason that Virgin Islanders who were granted voting rights in 1906, didn’t get to vote on whether or not they wanted to be sold to the US. Same thing could happen again, but this time with public debate in Congress; but with US deciding to sell anyway to get rid of their little problem.)
Be Blessed
@ ‘Don’t Insult Our Intelligence’:
I think you are absolutely right.There needs to be a consensus as
to how the people stand regarding the issue of status,and the best way,I think,for them to be unequivocally heard,is by way of a plebiscite.
Ask,as you pointed out,simple questions:
(a) Do you want the status quo? Yes or No.
(b) Do you want Independence? Yes or No.
(c) Do you want Incorporated Status?? Yes or No.
(d) If none of the above,ah wha’ you want? Specify.
Then move along as you so wisely suggested.
But by all means,get that basic matter resolved and out of the way.
Interesting proposition, that the “territory of other property” of the U.S. (i.e. the USVI) could be sold to another country. Given the US financial crisis, this may not be so far fetched. The proposed 5th constitution tries to address this in Section 4 which states clearly that “the Virgin Islands of the United States cannot be sold nor transferred.” So, the drafters of the document tried to deal with this possibility, but what is to prevent the U.S. from ignoring this in a constitution of a colony?
Soldier crab, please know that there is also a status known as free association which can be tailor-made to suit the individual circumstance. There are many examples of former island colonies forming different forms of free association status with their colonial powers. It is not all simply independence which we are not ready for financially nor psychologically (since we seem to have problems with self-definition). The status of incorporated territory is not in our interest since we would have no more political power in the U.S. system than we do now, but would have more responsibilities (including the diversion of federal taxes to pay for the Bush deficit).We would also have less autonomy than we have now. Remember, incorporated status means that we are on the road to statehood – but since we are too small, and have too much pigmentation, statehood is unrealistic, not to mention utterly destructive to maintaining our culture. Under our present status, we could be merged with the 51st state of Puerto Rico. This would be far more realistic that achieving statehood alone.
On leadership, we need to elect leaders who can discuss these very issues. So far, I do not know what the position is of any of the present elected representatives who cannot be any more apolitical than they are today. If the candidates are not challenged on our political future, then what is the basis for their being elected? I can’t figure it out…